John Seryak - Building an Energy Firm to Be Bold

[00:00:10] Dominique: Welcome to Green Champions.

[00:00:11] Adam: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people sharing sustainability success stories.

[00:00:16] Dominique: From entrepreneurs to artists, scientists to activists, this podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas. I'm Dominique.

[00:00:24] Adam: And I'm Adam.

[00:00:25] Dominique: Today, Adam and I are very excited to be joined by John Seryak. John is the founder and managing partner of Go Sustainable Energy. John has led Go's strategy of attracting inquisitive engineering talent to provide accurate, unbiased guidance on sustainable energy from practical next steps to cutting edge projects.

John also leads the regulatory policy and electricity markets team through Go's subsidiary, RunnerStone. We'll get a little more into that in our next episode. Today we're diving into sustainability as it relates to energy and how John found himself here. Thanks for joining us today, John.

[00:00:59] John: Yeah. Thank you.

[00:00:59] Dominique: So John, let's start off light, 'cause that was, you do a lot of things. But what do you do for fun?

[00:01:04] John: A thing I did for fun this week, or tried to do for fun was on Monday I walked into work and I can walk to work, I can walk through a park called Reston in the Clintonville area. And I took ice skates with me that I bought last year because I'm like, I'm gonna try ice skating, like on a frozen stream or something without falling in. There are a couple places you can do that if it gets cold enough and you're not gonna like, drown in the water. Nothing was iced over enough, so I did not get to skate.

[00:01:32] Dominique: That was the most anticlimactic.

[00:01:35] John: What did you do? I tried to have fun and 

[00:01:38] Dominique: I thought about having fun. Yeah. 

[00:01:39] John: So I came up with that. I'm like, that's not gonna answer Dominique's questions 'cause I didn't even do it. I did it last year though. It was great. I guess the fun, I'm like not in that stage of life, if that makes sense. I am deeply satisfied with what I do. But I have a lot of obligations with work and family. I have kids. So most of my time is defined by other people.

[00:02:01] Dominique: And what they wanna do for fun?

[00:02:02] John: Yeah. And what they wanna do. 

And then I try to be in the present. And if that's my role right now, then have fun with how they have fun. 

 And then I find out I like to do adventurous stuff or like hike and backpack. And I've been able to get into that more, which is what I did like doing for fun. But I'm deep into my forties and the body, like my body doesn't work the same way. So now the things I want to do for fun, I get hurt, which is not fun. And so I'm like reevaluating like,

[00:02:30] Dominique: Sleeping in a tent has changed its color.

[00:02:32] John: Yeah, like this was fun and now like, but I don't wanna throw out my back, so I'm evaluating what am I going to want to do for fun.

let's go back and just start with I'd love to hear your background in energy and how you got interested in this field.

Yeah. So the one teeny story on like innate interest in energy which a lot of my staff also have a very similar story from like their childhood, which is and for anyone listening like coming up with my own idea that was a perpetual motion machine. So this is like my first interest in energy was when I was like, probably, I don't know, eight.

And I was like, I'm gonna turn my bicycle into a helicopter. I'm gonna put blade, I just can just pedal, turn the blades and I'll be able to fly. And then I was like, I'm gonna get tired. Oh, I can like put it on a chain to the blades that runs back down to the pedals, I pedal the blades, and then the blades will run the pedal. I can lift my feet up and go. That is a perpetual motion machine. It doesn't work. 

[00:03:30] Adam: But a brilliant idea 

[00:03:31] Dominique: Yeah. 

[00:03:31] John: yeah. The public is actually very bad with understanding this and it is a key part of energy engineering. And so I remember that and actually a lot of my coworkers who are into energy have like

[00:03:43] Dominique: had that same moment of realization?

[00:03:45] John: Yeah, they had, when they were a kid coming up with this idea that they thought was brilliant. And then later on in life, your brain matures and it's like, that doesn't work. But energy is like deeply embedded in why it doesn't work and why you thought it did. But then it was Like gap. I wasn't interested in energy at all. I got into engineering for different reasons.

You know, I was, took things apart and was smart and good at math and science. So people were like, you're an engineer. And I'm like, this sounds all right. And then started to get into it and had like a crisis like started to really hate engineering. 

Mechanical. And so I was gonna quit. That's how I got into energy. I was going to quit engineering because I was finding social and environmental issues motivating and wanted purpose with my work. And I'm like, looks like the engineers just make shit for people. 

Looks like you're just like, what are you doing that's interesting or important to, you're just like responding to we're creating like shit. Which isn't true entirely but that's how I felt at the time. I was gonna quit and I had an engineering advisor who said whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

If you wanna make a difference on social and environmental issues, stick with engineering and get into energy. And I was like, Oh. So I needed that guidance. But then that kind of innate thing I was talking about came out later.

[00:04:59] Dominique: Well, yeah, that reminds me as a little aside, that reminds me of being in like, I also was an engineering major, but I was industrial systems, different. But I remember being in like an ethics class for engineers and we had to explore the ethics behind if you are in charge of designing a gun, like where does the ethics begin and end in terms of your wrongdoing as the engineer. And I mean, this is not exactly what you were talking about, but it like that was very eyeopening for me that like I could end up on a side of engineering that wasn't at all solving a problem. And that, I just feel that's very interesting when you realized that you really have, there's so much more you could do in how big the playing field is.

And a little birdie had told me that there was a pivotal mentor in your life. So is the one that you're talking about one you'd point to?

[00:05:39] John: Yes, he would be one of the pivotal mentors, Kevin Hallinan. And he's got a whole tribe of engineers that he's played this role for. And they like have all gone into like energy and sustainability or biomedical devices, things like that. But yeah, so he was, that was pivotal for me because I was gone.

Yeah. 

He happened to be my undergrad advisor and he was like, Hey, you gotta get into energy. 

[00:06:01] Dominique: What year of college did that happen for you?

[00:06:03] John: junior year.

[00:06:04] Dominique: You were also involved in a sustainability club at University of Dayton. And which is the school you were at, we should have mentioned that. So were you already involved in sustainability before energy was an interest so then that led you there? How did that work?

[00:06:16] John: Yeah, Kevin was like, oh, focus on energy. And then he said, and go talk to Kelly Kissock. So this would be another mentor who gave me my skillset in energy. But it took a while.

And so, I ended up on sustainability because I was like, oh yeah, maybe energy, but I didn't have the coursework or internship. I didn't have access to like, how to get into it or what that meant right away. But at the time there was a speaker that came to campus. I actually was co-oping so I didn't hear him.

But Bill McDonough who's really into sustainability and kind of a big name in the late nineties. And so other students on campus got into sustainability. And we had an Earth club on campus and the Earth Club for me was hard to like access. Like I could go there but I was like, I'm not sure if I'm allowed. Like, am I gonna get judged for wearing a belt cause it was a leather belt. Like it was that, very vegan, like lots of dyed hair, lots of piercings, which is fine. Like that is, I'm kind of in that tribe a bit. 

[00:07:12] Dominique: And that's very intimidating when you're still learning and you're like, am I gonna make the wrong step in front of these people who clearly have a lot of opinions.

[00:07:19] John: Yeah, it's like a lot of behavior change all at once. And a lot of strong feelings about what's moral or not moral. And that was, I found that intimidating. So I started sustainability club in part to be the place where people could come that wanted to work on something, but were intimidated.

[00:07:37] Adam: So really creating that inclusive space for people where it's like, show up, but let's make a difference together in right for you.

[00:07:43] John: Yeah, so I had a focus on energy, but more broadly with sustainability. And so I started the club. Partly again, Kevin Hallinan kind of told or suggested me to, and I got confused. I think it was an idea and I took it as a directive. I owed him something and he was like, do this. But then I was actually interested in being a leader and starting something, and I wanted to make that space for more people. I was like, we can't solve these challenges if it's if it's a small group of people, I think it needs to be a bigger group.

[00:08:10] Dominique: I relate to that. I was being I'm like a very coachable entrepreneur. And so if someone tells me something, I'm like, great, I'm gonna go do that. 

[00:08:16] John: Yeah. It was like that. 

[00:08:17] Dominique: You think they're telling you to, so then you do it. So that was your first experience founding something?

[00:08:21] John: Yeah. I mean, short answer, yes. I've always had an entrepreneurial and starter streak. I had been president of the Amnesty International Student Club the year before. And student clubs on universities, yes, you can continue it, but kind of you're always restarting and students get frustrated with this.

But I think it's part of the process and so I had some continuing starting experience, but then this was the first thing where I'm like, I'm gonna start a brand new thing. That I want people to join and be inclusive and I want it to last and it was a great experience. And by that point I also thought maybe I'll start a company.

So I was very intentional like, I want to learn through this process of starting a club.

[00:09:02] Dominique: Oh, you had that foresight then?

[00:09:04] John: Yeah 'cause at this point I was a graduate student. So, I was in graduate school, had this other mentor, Kelly Kissock, I was developing skills. And then I was like, I'm not sure I can go join a company to do what I want do, so I might need to start my own thing and I'm probably gonna want other people to start it with me.

And so sustainability club was like my practice did that. Can I like say, "let's do this!" "Who's with me?" and will people join? And then it goes from 'me' to 'we' very quickly. And so that's Sustainability Club, let me do that.

[00:09:34] Adam: so then when you got out of school, what kind of problems or challenges were you working on?

[00:09:38] John: Yeah. So I graduated and I decided I don't know how to start a company. I'm an engineering major then I had highly specialized skills and energy assessing and industrial energy. So I decided to go join a company to get a job, moved to Boston, got married. I married the co-president of sustainability club.

[00:09:56] Dominique: I was gonna say, I know you met your wife through that founding experience too.

[00:10:00] John: Yeah. Lot of ancillary benefits start, like married the co-president. Got a couple things done at once. So, yeah, that was so I decided to go plug in and support other people's efforts. And it was a good experience, but in the end I, I realized, like my read was the vision and mission of that company was a little bit different than what I wanted to do.

And also I was tired of vacationing to Ohio and living in a high priced area like Boston. Like cramming family relationships into the holidays like sucks. So there were a couple drivers to come back to Ohio. 

[00:10:33] Adam: So really like, you didn't start a company directly after graduating, but it sounds like you were working on challenges in a similar space. Like where did you start?

[00:10:41] John: Yeah, so I think the basic idea was I'm like, I have this specialty set of skills on energy, which is part of the broader sustainability conversation. It's a career path in and of itself, and I can apply that to make a difference with how we use and produce energy. So I had already picked that kind of I think this is my calling for life and with my career is to impact energy use.

And so I can do that by joining a group that's already doing that. And they've figured out how to start a business and they've figured out payroll and they've figured out how to get, so I'm just not gonna figure that out. I'm gonna go do the engineering. So that's the problem and challenge I wanted to address was just energy use.

But then I think when I was there, I figured out like they were maybe not as intentional or as bold as I wanted to be. And then, how to create a workplace that where people feel valued and engaged. They were, they had a very good workplace, but was also a little bit off from what I was looking for.

So that started to become important to me too. Where do I wanna work as a person no matter what we're working on? Like how do you treat the people around you? And then wanting to have that space for other people too.

[00:11:48] Adam: I've met a lot of students who are like, Hey, I want to start a company. But I think that's a great point of when you go and you get experience in a company, you can also just refine your taste of I want it to be like this, or I don't want it to be like this. And so you can start seeing how would I do this differently? And that, that helps down the road.

[00:12:04] John: Yeah. I wanted to unpack more. You mentioned that you wanted something that was more intentional and bold. What are some examples of how that shows up in the work that you do now? In our next episode we're gonna get more into all that your company does, but just give us a taste of some things Yeah, I probably the main way is we have a vision for the company that is it's not a vision of the company, it's a vision of society. And so we're explicit about that. When, like in our hiring process, when we onboard people, we repeat it like in our annual retreat. And it's kind of like, no, duh. Like we want zero carbon and no pollution and equitable energy use. But the place I worked, I think they shared that vision, they just didn't say it out loud. And then I think it lets other things start to supersede it.

Like, Oh, like your priority or how you're aligned maybe starts to get off in ways. But it was a great place to work and I still really like the guys there, ladies I worked with that, my coworkers. But yeah, I mean, for me it's been, I'm like, I'm not sure how much I do different, but I focus on, I'm gonna keep just repeating the vision, and then I try to over communicate what I'm thinking to the staff. I err towards over communication. I also like to over communicate, as you both already know. But that for me, I realized like at the company I worked for, I would create things in my mind about what was happening that weren't true.

Oh, we're doing this because they don't care what a, there's this very human like the way of constructing a reality based on some of the information you have that is like false. It's like a false narrative. And I did that when I was younger. I did it there. It was part of what drove me to start a company.

And now that I'm on the other end of being the founder and having 20 some staff, sometimes I see, oh, like people misunderstand. Like my own employees will misunderstand my intentions. And I'm like, and I'm like, yeah, I misunderstood the intentions of the people I worked for. And so I've done a lot of reflecting on like, does that just happen?

And so I will try to communicate about these things so like my coworkers and my staff know where I'm at, but I've found that's very challenging to get it down right. And so sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm not necessarily doing it differently than the old place I was working. It is that I matured. I was like, when I was younger, I was overly judgmental of other people that drove me to do a good thing I think? I still agree with what I did, but I've reflected on that of my passion and motivation was based on my own mis construct of what was happening.

[00:14:31] Adam: Something I've just noticed in our communications is that company culture is very central to what your company stands for.

And that comes across that everyone is involved in engaging in ways that is not normal with you're stereotypical company. Can you paint a little bit of a picture of just what that looks like? Because it seems to be core to this episode of building the right culture in order to accomplish something.

[00:14:52] John: I think to me it's my coworkers and my employees that are not, 'cause I have partners. So that one thing would be like, I have partners. Nine, which is a lot for a company our size. So we have a partnership path that's not completely unique, but still pretty rare for our company size.

And that is I want staff to have a sense of ownership to become stewardship. And then when we see that, that they're like, yes, this is mine, but also the groups, then I want it to like actually be you know, not just I feel like, a steward, I feel like I'm here. I feel like this is mine. I'm like, okay. And now it is, now a piece of it should be yours. So that's one thing. I want people to understand what I'm thinking and like how my decisions affect their work.

[00:15:35] Dominique: So being transparent?

[00:15:36] John: Being transparent. Yes. Like, you know, they work there too. So do I, so do they.

[00:15:41] Dominique: Does that show up as you taking a bit more time to explain where something came from or how you do updates?

[00:15:49] John: Oh, there's A lot of explaining.

[00:15:50] Dominique: Okay. 

[00:15:51] John: So, you know, we probably have to guardrail against overexplaining And we're engineers too, so we love explaining to other people. 

So yeah, there is this transparency part, but almost it can almost get outta control and we have to pull back. 

[00:16:05] Adam: I'm really interested, you mentioned this concept of these meetings on Mondays that are open to the community, where you're sharing what's going on. Can you tell us a little bit like how that came about and what that looks like?

[00:16:16] John: Yeah. And it, it gets to this culture. So it's about staying connected and sharing the mic, right? So yeah, sometimes you're explaining, but people who've been around longer or have more responsibilities explain more. But we want to take interest in each other's work. And so we're sharing the microphone.

So we want to hear what did our coworkers, what are you working on? What's interesting? It doesn't even have to be a success story, it's just tell us what you're working on, tell us your story. So we do it every Monday. It's on company time like everyone shows up. And then it's we just go round. Yeah. But it's usually it is one or several people talking about what they're working on. So it's round robin throughout the year.

 Yeah. And then it's our time for to listen to our coworkers and ask questions and, Hey, what'd you do? And so that helps create this sense of connection, I think, and let people see my coworkers are interested in what I'm doing.

Like it matters, it's important. And then also to help instill with everyone else, Hey, by the way, you're expected to pay attention. So if someone, we don't get this, but if someone were not in that culture and like checking their phone or disengaged, like it would be noticed by the group. And then they would get some gentle direction of actually here, we pay attention, we take interest in our coworkers work, no matter what it is. If it's not interesting to you right now, we want you to figure out how to become interested in it. 

[00:17:35] Dominique: It's also a very, a very thoughtful way to make sure everyone gets heard and gets known in a space like that. Especially knowing engineers and like maybe the more common like personality type of being an introvert, you might end up with certain people who don't share as often or be heard as frequently or feel comfortable sharing. So you also are like creating a natural, like sharing of the microphone in the sense that they get their own space to do that.

[00:17:58] Adam: Yeah. And if you're listening to this podcast, our first iteration of this episode was gonna involve probably half the company being on the podcast. And we forced John into doing a solo episode with us. So we're very grateful for that. But it's just really something that I think is reflected through your company, that this is something really important of raising everybody's voices so that everybody's engaged and that comes across. 

[00:18:20] John: And that is thank you for sharing that, what I asked because it's, this is part of our culture and I want my own staff to know and hear that too. It's also though there's some self-interest here from a company perspective. There's a training ground here. If you want to make a difference on energy and sustainability, or if you want to make money in that industry and you are not showing interest in listening to the client like you're done. Like you will not, you're not gonna get hired. Or if you do, you're not gonna make a difference. You're not gonna get rehired. And clients and people's problems aren't always the ones you're interested in the start, and you still need to listen. And you can become accustomed to that's a very enriching experience. But I don't know that our broader culture really values that or instills that. And so that launch is, yes, it's about our culture, but it's also how we like, it's rubber meets the road with consulting with our clients.

If you can't pay attention and show interest in the client, like we're in trouble.

[00:19:17] Dominique: That's a very powerful message. If you were in to impart one lesson on our listeners around energy use and maybe the ways that we need to rethink how that is incorporated in our lives going forward, what would be one lesson you wanna impart or maybe one way you could make someone who's listening think differently about energy if they've not seen all the room for improvement that your technical and professional experience have shown you?

[00:19:43] John: Yeah. So it's a rip off of what I just said. So I would say people typically view our challenges with energy as a technological problem. We have the technology to solve energy issues or an economic problem. There's enough economical technology solutions to make significant progress. Or like political will or like moral. Oh, they don't do this because they're bad people or there's a lot of judgment and politicization around energy and strong feelings. And I would say in my experience, none of those three things are true. And if those three things aren't true, then you're like what is the hangup?

And I think it gets to start listening to someone and show interest, and you will find the hangup is often not, those things come up, but often you can solve it with information. Like it's not, there's economical technologies to decarb. Like you can save money and decarbonize. And you can do it with people who are all across the political spectrum.

But you have to listen to 'em first.

[00:20:36] Adam: Oh, that's brilliant. With that, thanks for joining us today. It's been really fun to dive into the story of how you got into the energy field, but really this underlying theme of inclusivity of like, how do you bring people into the conversation, make sure that you're listening to them and understanding them and make sure that they're part of that journey as well.

That was just really brilliant how you shared that evolution. Thanks for sharing that with us.

[00:20:58] John: You're welcome.

[00:20:59] Dominique: Yeah. How can listeners support you or advocate for the work that you're doing? 

[00:21:02] John: You can find us at gosustainableenergy.com. But I would say actually if you know somebody that works at a place where they're like yapping about sustainability or energy and their employer has big energy bills, you mention that you heard about us to them. That is how we get work. You go to a person, not to our website. You go tell someone else. Yeah, that'll work actually. 

[00:21:26] Dominique: Tell me you know your market without telling me you know your market. That's great.

That's helpful.

[00:21:31] Adam: if you're listening to this and you're working for a company that has high energy bills, refer Go Sustainable.

[00:21:35] John: And I know before we get into the next episode, you also are active around policy and regulation. Are there any resources or places you'd like to send a listener who wants to get engaged in that side of energy as well? What I would say to that and to anyone who on policy which I would say anything that is important to you on policy, look for ways to get engaged civically and informed.

Because policy, we interface through with politics in the media, and my experience is that is a surface level view of what's happening. It is often from all points of view intentionally manipulated to move the people. But with the folks you listen to as well, you have to distill things down to messaging points.

And just saying something on social media I think is, I would say very poor form of advocacy and probably counterproductive. Instead, look for organizations that are actively working on your issue and become members of those organizations and become educated and ask questions. I think if you can ask questions, you will make a difference. If you start offering solutions, you're probably wrong.

[00:22:40] Dominique: And that is a beautiful way to close this out. Thank you so much for joining us and telling us a bit more of how you found yourself here, how you built your company. I'm excited for our next episode. We're gonna hear some voices as we share the microphone and let the Go team share some of their favorite things.

Yeah, thanks John.

[00:22:58] John: You're welcome. Thank you. 

[00:22:59] Adam: As always, our guests have found a unique way to champion sustainability. We are here to put real names and stories behind the idea that no matter your background, career, or interests, you really can contribute in the fight against climate change.

[00:23:10] Dominique: You can find our episodes, donate or reach us at thegreenchampions.com. Give us a review and follow us in if you're podcast platform. Our music is by Zayn Dweik. Thanks for listening to Green Champions. We'll dig into the second half of John's success story in our next episode.