Grant Behnke - Intersection of Hospitality, Sustainability, and Service

[00:00:00] Dominique: Hello. Welcome to another episode of Green Champions.

[00:00:14] Adam: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people, making real environmental change in the work that they do. I'm here with Dominique, the sustainability expert.

[00:00:22] Dominique: And I'm so glad to be here alongside Adam, the social enterprise extraordinaire. We bring you guests who saw the potential for impact in their job or community and did something about it.

[00:00:31] Adam: From entrepreneurs to artists, scientists to activists, this podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas.

[00:00:39] Dominique: So whether you're tuning in doing your daily commute, relaxing at home, or taking a nature walk, today Adam and I are joined by Grant Behnke. 

[00:00:49] Dominique: Grant is the director at Rockbridge, which is a private equity real estate firm focused on the hotel industry. So today we're talking about sustainability as it relates to real estate and hospitality. 

[00:01:01] Dominique: Grant is currently the director of Development & ESG. I'm gonna explain those two words real quick. 

[00:01:06] Adam: Yes, please do. 

[00:01:07] Adam: So development refers to the work that he does in the real estate side, spanning from initial feasibility assessments. So think like analysis, research, fundraising, aka 'Is this a property we wanna invest in?' All the way to managing and designing the actual hotel. And then ESG means that Grant is the leader of Rockbridge's environmental, social, and corporate governance strategy, a.k.a, "How are we actually incorporating sustainability and all this really cool hotel stuff?" So as someone that I admire, Grant, I'm very glad that you're here. I think you're brilliant. I think you're young and humble and this will be really fun. I'm excited to have you here as one of our green champions. Can't wait to get into who you are and what you've managed to do.Welcome on the podcast.

[00:01:49] Grant: Thank you so much. I'm honored and excited to be here.

[00:01:52] Adam: Yeah.

[00:01:53] Dominique: Was that a accurate description of your role? 

[00:01:55] Grant: It was. Well, both development & ESG can mean a lot of things to a lot of different folks in our industry. But at Rockbridge, when we talk about development, we talk about real estate development. And so that's ground up construction, historic rehab, and adaptive reuse. But within that, there are several ESG overlaps with the work I do on the development side, as there are, the work I do in the development side has overlaps with the ESG.

[00:02:21] Adam: Got it. 

[00:02:21] Adam: Hey, I've heard the term ESG lot, but I don't really understand what that means or how that's different from sustainability. Can you shed some light on that?

[00:02:30] Grant: Yeah, it's a great question. ESG and sustainability, to me, are related concepts to be sure. Oftentimes you'll hear people talk about ESG as being a framework or a set of criteria by which you can evaluate a company's responsible business practices, and it has a lot more to do with risk and reputation and managing responsible business practices. Sustainability on the other hand, it's related but I always come back to a definition that came out of an early. Oh, I'm gonna forget the title of this report, but it's called the Brentland definition of sustainable development or sustainability. 

[00:03:14] Grant:  Sustainability literally is how do you maintain or endure over time but their definition in this report, which I thought was really nice, is meeting the needs of the current generation without compromising the needs of future generations to do the same, which I really like that definition. I think it humanizes sustainability nicely.  And as you can see that they're both, ESG and sustainability are natural compliments in that they're both trying to cover the disciplines across social and the environment and the economy and the way we govern our businesses. 

[00:03:48] Adam: I would love to hear your journey into hotels. How did that start?

[00:03:52] Grant: Sure. I've only ever had two career aspirations. 

[00:03:55] Grant: Number one was a chef after I baked a cake at the age of six and I skipped dry ingredients 'cause I didn't know what that was. I decided I wanted to still stay within the hospitality realm, but hotels is what emerged for me around age, you know, 8, 9, and it just was a career choice that stuck with me all the way through the rest of my high school and into college, that's what I studied in school. And that's the job I have had ever since.

[00:04:26] Adam: So that's like the second grade.

[00:04:27] Grant: This is true, yes. And I've had to reflect a lot on what about the hotel industry was compelling to me at a young age. I did have the opportunity to travel, not extensively, but just relatively normal amount that got me some exposure to hotels. And in particular, I can think of one time when I got to go to a pretty complicated resort-style hotel and I showed up, the little sign on the front desk check-in area was offering tours to people that wanted to tour the back of house. And unfortunately, the sign was a little bit outdated because the tours had ended the day prior. 

[00:05:09] Grant: So we asked though 'cause I had this very early, kind of just budding hotel fascination. So we asked if there was any way we could still get a tour and they said, you know, "Let's see what we can do." We get a phone call the next day, "Hey, can you be at the front desk at this time?" We show up. The sous chef of the entire resort is there and takes us through this very, like, you know, the labyrinth of back of house tunnels, past the laundry, showing us the ovens where he can cook 500 chickens at a time, and the oven where he can do 10,000 cookies in an hour. Rolling through all these areas that really showed to me how complicated and interdisciplinary the hotel industry was. 

[00:05:52] Grant: Now, I don't think I had the you know, metacognition yet to really put that together in words, but I think that was an experience that changed me. And since then I decided that hotels were something I wanted to pursue, and along the way I've found it really nice to pair with sustainability. 

[00:06:09] Grant: I think in their shared complexity, the hotel industry and sustainability are natural compliments to one another. But I would also say I've recently started toying with this idea, so I'll try and articulate it for you live. I'm just sort of chewing on it now, but,

[00:06:25] Dominique: What a treat. 

[00:06:26] Grant: I do think that there is something transformative and sort of transcendent about just the idea of service and wanting to put others before yourself. That's a decision that's always come naturally to me. It's a decision that I think is where the magic is. And the idea of service is something that has always made me feel like me. So, that's probably the simplest answer I can give. 

[00:06:52] Dominique: If there was like a Venn diagram of sustainability and the hotel industry, you feel like service that's right there in the middle and they like overlap in a sense. 

[00:07:02] Grant: That's really well said. Yeah. Service to the planet and service to my fellow humans.

[00:07:06] Dominique: That's a very good way to understand why those two things feel connected to you, but also as a cool way to like speak the same language about different things, you know? like that's a great way to get people who care about sustainability to like consider why it's important we do this in a hotel space, but then also to get a person who works in hospitality to see that sustainability is like innate to something they already connected with. right? 

[00:07:30] Grant: Totally. 

[00:07:30] Dominique: Well, okay, so we got to hear like the tour story. So you like finding out why, maybe you were intrigued from a young age of like wanting to be a part of this like hotel machine that exists before maybe you had the connection to the service of it all, why did sustainability feel like an important thing to like contribute to for you? 

[00:07:49] Grant: This is another thing I've had to reflect on for myself. It's always just sort of been a part of me. I was always just raised in a way where I wasn't wasting resources, I wasn't doing unnecessary harm. And in a lot of ways, the things that a lot of people consider to be sustainable in many ways, at least in the way I was raised they were framed for me as common sense. 

[00:08:13] Grant: And sustainability to me has always been about doing what you can when you can, and it was always just easy for me to make little decisions in my daily life around being a good citizen of the planet, if you will. Not that I was a superhero, but just little things like, you know, I would ride my bike, I would reuse my same little lunch bag every day, and I would just try and try and recycle and not throw things away unnecessarily. 

[00:08:39] Grant: Now where did that come from? Half of my family is Midwestern farmers and the other half grew up in urban Philadelphia and Detroit. And so pairing the natural environment and the built environment always felt like a logical fit to me. And growing up in both of those, I realized that the same pairing could be made within sustainability in the hotel industry.

[00:09:03] Adam: I'd love to hear just a little bit more of like how you've grown in your own sustainability awareness. So it sounds like you've done some things there, but how has that changed over the years?

 A big part of my sustainability journey for sure has been trying to pair the interest that I've had without ever really feeling like I had formal training in sustainability, which was a little bit of a challenge for me, especially when I am, you know, I've spent time in the industry or in education settings, academic settings where I'm surrounded by people who are studying international agriculture and soil science and natural resources and things that to me feel like real sustainability work. And so I sometimes felt like I didn't necessarily belong. But there were a couple of times along the way where frankly, just a couple of individuals reminded me that my perspective was still valuable and sort of needed and it was gonna take everyone to make the change that we wanted to see, so. For that, I found the hotel industry to be a really powerful conduit for the sustainability interests that I had. And going off learning everything I could from the people who were studying the soil science, the natural resources, the environmental engineering, bringing that back to the hotel industry, it was amazing. The hotel industry is so interdisciplinary, like no matter what I was learning elsewhere, I could always find a way to bring it back and magically, you know, it applied to the hotel industry every time.

[00:10:36] Adam: I love that. Well, and I think that's especially important for anybody who's listening. You know, whatever your level is in life, you don't need an advanced degree in sustainability to learn from others around you and find things that you can do to create change.

[00:10:49] Dominique: Yeah, and I think the reason I was very excited to have you on as a guest is because I think we need to talk about the fact that people who have jobs that are not traditionally sustainability related are the ones we need to be having the awareness of what they can do about it and like actually moving the needle within their organization. So, it's cool that you're so industry specific with sustainability work that you do. Can you paint the day for someone where you would do maybe like a lot of sustainability work? What would it look like for a day in Grant's life?

[00:11:17] Grant: Yeah, that's a great question. 

[00:11:19] Grant: My day-to-day work in ESG and sustainability at the ownership level of the hotel industry usually is, I think about it in the form of being an advocate, not necessarily an expert. And what I mean by that is it's I don't consider it my job to know everything, but I do consider it my job to try and be really curious and ask a ton of questions and find the people who know what they're talking about, bring it back to my work as a hospitality or hotel ownership group, ESG, lead representative, whatever you wanna call it, and find a way to apply that in a way that creates value.

[00:12:03] Dominique: Okay, so you mentioned ownership.

[00:12:05] Grant: Yes.

[00:12:06] Dominique: And for maybe a listener who, or Adam who may think, that you work at the front desk of a hotel or they're picturing their experience of visiting a hotel. Can you explain to us how your role with the hotel industry sits with, compared to what we traditionally think of as like a hotel employee or something. 

[00:12:25] Grant: Absolutely. Okay. This is an important part of the hotel industry and it's a reason why sustainability can be challenging at times. It can be really collaborative at times. It can make it easier, harder, but there is a structure in the hotel industry where you have your owners, you have your hotel operators, and you have your hotel brands. So you can be a combination of those. There are some companies out there that function as all three. You don't have to be a brand necessarily. There are plenty of independent hotels, sometimes we call those brands of one. But the concept is that ownership groups like Rockbridge, which is where I work, have a duty to own hotels, and our money is made by managing investor capital but deploying that capital into hotel projects that we feel are compelling or important.

[00:13:16] Adam: So you buy the properties and actually own the land.

[00:13:19] Grant: Yes, the buying, the selling, the building, the lending, that lies with us as the owner.

[00:13:24] Adam: Okay.

[00:13:24] Grant: The hotel operating group is critical because they are really tasked to oversee the day-to-day operations on the hotel, on behalf of the owner. The operator gets paid a fee to do that work. And that's the hiring and firing, that's the accounting work, and that's implementing what a typical hotel operator would have as their standard operating protocols and procedures at the property level. And that's that service pull through that is really important.

[00:13:55] Adam: So that means everyone that's in the hotel that's working there, they're all managed by the hotel operator.

[00:14:01] Grant: They're typically employed by the hotel operator and therefore managed by the hotel operator. And then brands are the companies that most people will have heard of. That's the Marriott, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG, companies where when you go to a hotel, what's the flag flying outside the front door? And so there are exceptions where a Marriott or a Hilton will be the owner or be the operator but by and large, brands are in the business of franchising, they have a franchise model. And so we as the owner will sign a management contract with a hotel operator and will sign a franchise agreement with a brand, and then we are beholden to the operating protocol of our operator, and we have to hold them accountable to deliver results that we think are appropriate. 

[00:14:53] Grant: We have to work with our brand to be accommodating to their service and design standards so that they can maintain the quality and consistency of the brand. But on the flip side, the operator and the brand have to hold the ownership accountable to be investing in the property in the right way, and to be really doing right by the asset so that the operator and the brand are well positioned for success.

[00:15:21] Adam: How does sustainability fit into this from an owner role? 

[00:15:25] Grant: Sustainability in the hotel industry has to be inherently collaborative. And so from an ownership role, We are always going to be working closely with the operators and the brands because no one person within that triangle has full control over the guest experience and full control over the end product, and that includes sustainability. And so to give some examples, if I'm a brand, what if I am going to mandate that there is a lunch period as at the restaurant? 

[00:15:59] Grant: Or if I'm gonna mandate certain design standards, or if I'm going to mandate certain fixtures or lighting controls or smart thermostats? That may be at odds with what I as an owner want to do to invest in my property, and that may be at odds with what the operating company who actually has their staff there running the hotel day to day is trying to do to run a high performance building efficiently. And so there can be a little bit of tension in negotiation because you're dealing with ultimately, even though it's all one asset, it's three people with three completely different perspectives on the industry. Three completely different ways of making money. And really three completely different operating models and stakeholder motivations.

[00:16:43] Adam: I love that. And if you're listening, we're gonna dive into deep into this in our next episode with Grant. But I just wanted to explore that right now 'cause I'm very curious.

[00:16:51] Dominique: And I'm curious, like just in case anyone's like, "Wow, that is interesting" did not know the hotel industry is so dynamic and maybe they're wondering how the heck you get into a position of any part of that triangle, maybe particularly yours. Can you tell us how you got to your job? You didn't always have a hotel title. You didn't always have ESG in your title. How'd you do that? 

[00:17:11] Grant: Sure. It's a great question. I grew up on the operation side of the hotel industry, so I spent my youth as a banquet server, as a pool boy, as a housekeeper, as a restaurant server, a line cook.

[00:17:26] Dominique: Adam's eyes are lighting up.

[00:17:30] Grant: But that was really critical for me. That's really the way I like to do my work even today is I am always most interested in the just messy, gritty, magical, on property stuff that's happening.

[00:17:45] Dominique: Not everyone combines the word messy and magical.

[00:17:48] Grant: Uh, I think it applies here, but y'all let you correct me if I'm wrong.

[00:17:53] Adam: That's neat. Like having so many different jobs and being able to see how things are working in a hotel environment from so many different angles.

[00:18:00] Grant: Yeah, I think it was a critical part of my development but for anyone it's sort of poking at something that I think is sort of a secret of the hotel industry and sort of concurrently a secret of the sustainability realm that makes it a really good fit for just about anyone. 

[00:18:18] Grant: So one of the secrets that I have found of the hotel industry and what's been meaningful and compelling to me for so long is even though I had some early catalysts that had my interest, what has maintained my attention and my focus and my energy and my effort on the hotel industry is the fact that I never really actually had to choose what it is I like to do. And what I mean by that is even when, like I mentioned that I studied hotel administration as a student in college. I was really fortunate to study at Cornell University where they have a school dedicated to the hotel industry and everyone that goes there leaves with one degree and it's hotel administration. So, when you show up there and you introduce yourself to people as an 18-year-old or however old you are, and you say, "Oh, I'm in the hotel school," most people say, "Wow, that's crazy. How did you know you wanted to do something so specific when you were 16, 17, applying to college?"

[00:19:23] Dominique: Or seven, in your case.

[00:19:24] Grant: Or seven. Fair enough. And the secret is that I never really feel like I had to do anything specific because the hotel industry is somewhere where it's people, it's data, it's marketing, it's design, it's architecture, it's legal, it's tax, it's food and beverage, it's creative, it's branding, it's writing, it's communication. It's really everything. And even though the hotel industry provides the platform, the breadth of work that I get to do, which was true of my academic studies and is true now of my job today is broad enough that it just lights up all the areas of my brain and the way that I couldn't imagine trying to replace. But show me another program where I can go from being judged on my ability to bake an angel food cake into my law and labor union relations class into my excel modeling and financial analysis class. That was a great fit for me.

[00:20:26] Adam: I've met so many people who are searching for their passion. And having that environment where you can really follow your curiosity, like you've mentioned that multiple times of like, it gave you this place where you could be curious and look at different things in different ways so it didn't lock you into one path for life.

[00:20:42] Grant: Yes, and the key for sustainability as well though, is that I find the same with sustainability. 

[00:20:50] Grant: Frankly, I find that sustainability is broad enough, it's multifaceted, it's interdisciplinary, and I just find that to be both important and interesting. But there is a way to plug in to sustainability in so many ways and incorporate it in so many parts of your day-to-day work that, like I said, I don't consider myself an expert at sustainability when I show up to work. I consider myself a hotel person, but I'm gonna advocate for the ESG and sustainability work that I think is interesting and important and will create value for my company and the world around me.

[00:21:27] Dominique: And adam, I feel as a lover of entrepreneurs and social enterprises, I feel like you can relate to the idea that you want to wear many hats and not have to pick.

[00:21:35] Adam: I am very indecisive. 

[00:21:37] Dominique: Yeah. 

[00:21:37] Adam: But I, you know, I've discovered something similar that when you can be curious and follow that curiosity, great stuff happens. And that's where really a lot of this energy of life is we're adapting and we're learning and we're growing.

[00:21:50] Dominique: Yeah. Well, thank you. 

[00:21:52] Dominique: Thank you for educating us about the world of hotels, about sustainability and how it relates to the hospitality space. Giving us context into like that marriage between like hotels and hospitality and the world of service, but sustainability, I think that's a really great mental image to hang on of like why those things overlap and I'm glad we could chat about how sustainability is really critical in a space that I don't think is often talked about that much.

[00:22:16] Adam: Well, and just one, hearing this whole background of how the hotel industry works, for me, that was really enlightening, the three parts of having an owner and operator and a brand and how they fit together.

[00:22:27] Grant: Yeah.

[00:22:28] Dominique: Well, thank you again, Grant.

[00:22:29] Grant: Thank you so much. 

[00:22:31] Dominique: Next time we're gonna dive into the success that Grant has managed to have. Get excited, Grant. We're very excited to put you on the spot. You're really carving new territory for sustainability in a unique space. And I'm excited for our next conversation. But as always, our guests have found a unique way to champion sustainability. We're here to put real names and stories behind the idea that no matter your background, your career, or your interests, you really can contribute in the fight against climate change.

[00:22:58] Adam: If you know a green champion, that should be our next guest. email us at thegreenchampions@gmail.com. You can find our show notes at thegreenchampions.com. Our music is by Zayn Dweik. 

[00:23:09] Adam: Thanks for listening to Green Champions. We will dig into another sustainability success story in our next episode, really diving into the work that Grant is doing in the hotel industry and what that looks like. 

​