Mason McNeill - The Banker Who Bet on Waste

[00:00:10] Dominique: Hello. Welcome to Green Champions.

[00:00:12] Christy: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people sharing sustainability success stories.

[00:00:16] Dominique: This podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas. I'm Dominique.

[00:00:21] Christy: And I'm Christy.

[00:00:23] Dominique: Today we're speaking with Mason McNeill. Mason is an investment professional focused on identifying and scaling opportunities in the waste and environmental services sector through a strategic finance driven lens.

Today we're talking about sustainability as it relates to investing and how you begin to see opportunity within the waste and environmental space. Thanks for joining us today, Mason. 

[00:00:42] Mason: Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.

[00:00:44] Dominique: So Mason, where did you grow up?

[00:00:46] Mason: I grew up in Central Arkansas in the Arkansas River Valley. It's a beautiful part of the state.

[00:00:52] Dominique: And were there early influences that kind of pushed you towards business finance?

[00:00:57] Mason: Yeah. I think from an early age, I wanted to get into the business world. That was a goal of mine going into college. And, you know, I think that those influences come from family and education and then the community that I was raised in.

[00:01:08] Dominique: So when you went to college, you had a unique split of what you studied. Can you tell us more about that and how you picked those particular fields of study?

[00:01:15] Mason: Sure. So as I mentioned, I knew I wanted to study business and so did that at the Walton College of Business at the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville, I studied finance and accounting, but I also had a history major. That was something that I decided to do about midway through my college experience and started taking some classes out of just pure intrigue. And then realized I, with, you know, some extra hours, I could put together a major.

So, I've got that balance between, you know, more technical, business focused functions, but also sort of the macro, the strategic, the thinking, oriented, discipline from history and particularly studying, you know, the last 200 years of, modern history.

[00:01:52] Dominique: If there's someone who doesn't see how there's value in knowing a lot about history and a lot about business, can you tell us a bit about like the value in that overlap?

[00:02:03] Mason: Yeah. So, I typically say, think a liberal arts education in the classic sense is a value. I think it teaches you to really think and break down complex problems and synthesize information and present a compelling argument. And so that's for me what studying history was about.

One of the unique differences in college, at least in my experience was, you know, most of the tests and exams on the business side are more problem based or maybe even multiple choice, whereas, I mean, especially at the upper levels within history, the exam is sitting down and handwriting an essay. And so that requires a different level of engagement and study.

So, yeah. So I think that that balance though, is important, because you've gotta have the technical knowledge of how does a business really work and, you know, report its performance and do it in line with generally accepted principles and things like that.

But then, you know, any business is a function of understanding the market it's in, the history of those markets and, you know, thinking about where it's gonna go in the future.

[00:02:57] Christy: I'm curious too, do you feel like, I think it's interesting how you have the history in finance and accounting, how do you see what you learned in school with that history approach?

How do you see it in your work every day? Where I'm going with that, how does that review of history combined with your technical skills and accounting and finance, how does that influence the decisions that you're making from a business standpoint on behalf, in your career of your current organization and others?

[00:03:25] Mason: Yeah. it's a good question. I mean, I think for me it creates the right balance between hard skills and soft skills. Oftentimes you have to make business decisions based on what the numbers say. But in most cases, it's more complicated than that. And the numbers only tell one story and there's a softer side of things around people and relationships and trends and understanding the marketplace and things like that. To really understand those deeply, it requires study, it requires synthesizing different information that isn't just, again, analyzing numbers. So Christy, I think that's how I would best explain it as far as how I'm creating that balance in my work today.

[00:04:03] Christy: I love that and that critical thinking that you touched on in your answer and a little bit of that and previously I think that's so important. I think we're seeing in our current society sometimes where we're thinking about the critical thinking skills maybe aren't as present as they have in the past.

Are you seeing that in your world and industry or do you feel like we're in a good spot? I'm just curious of your thoughts on the critical thinking skills.

[00:04:29] Mason: Yeah, I mean, I think it's, you can't really answer that question without acknowledging the AI trend. And, you know, I mean, yeah, I think something that everybody thinks about is, well, gosh, if AI tools are taking a load off us right then over a generation or two, what does that lead to, right? Are folks are they not learning the process that created good leaders and in the present or in the past that were, you know, in the trenches so to speak, you know, producing, doing the analysis or doing the research, things like that.

It's an interesting question. I think at the end of the day though, I'm confident and hopeful and, you know, the intuition of humans and what people can bring to the table. So that's how I think about it.

[00:05:04] Christy: I love it. Thank you for that. 

Going back to investment banking and capital markets, right? That's where you're working. For some of us in sustainability, perhaps, we don't use those terms every day. So what does that mean in layperson's terms, when you're working in investment banking and capital markets, what does that mean to anyone that might not be as familiar with those terms?

[00:05:25] Mason: Yeah, so in the context of sustainability, I think about it this way. I mean, we operate in a capitalist system. And so the way that that system works is, you know, businesses, private, anything outside of the public sector, has to receive financing in some way or another to execute on its goals, and make investments, pay people, pay vendors to execute upon its plan. And so, in order to do that, you need to more often than not, go and raise capital from a variety of sources. And so what investment banking is, from my perspective, is the facilitation of a connecting ideas to capital.

And so in the context of sustainability, right, there are a lot of really great ideas out there about how to make our society more circular, more sustainable. And those ideas are only ideas until you're able to really put them into practice. And so I think that there's this important role to be played about taking those ideas, telling the story in a compelling way, such that you get folks excited about putting capital at risk to execute on those ideas.

[00:06:27] Dominique: And that investment banking role was your first role out of college? Kind of going back to like the timeline of your career. Is that true?

[00:06:35] Mason: Correct. Yeah, I started my career at a firm called Stephens. It's based in Little Rock, Arkansas, but they've got offices all over the US and in Europe. But, you know, really great unique, investment banking firm. Within that little rock office, a lot of what I focused on was advising, you know, private and family owned companies on accessing the capital markets often for the first time.

And so that was something that really honed my career early on about how to go in and analyze a business, understand what it is today or, and what the story is in the future, and then how to go tell that to the capital markets to get folks excited about putting capital at risk.

[00:07:07] Dominique: That's really interesting, and I was gonna ask you what your favorite part of that role was, and it sounds like getting exposure to those conversations maybe?

[00:07:14] Mason: Yeah, I think so. I would say what was most motivating about it was, you know, oftentimes we got to work with someone who alongside their staff and their team had built really fantastic businesses and got to go, you know, realize the benefits of what they had built and go kind of demonstrate what was, you know, typically otherwise private company demonstrate the success of that to the marketplace. That was always exciting. And getting to tell that story on their behalf is something that I was often really motivated by.

[00:07:43] Dominique: You're making it sound very exciting and great. I'm also kind of just curious what was really hard about that? Like what was maybe the most challenging thing because I can only imagine that it's very complex and that there are a lot of challenges. But what stood out to you as a young person seeing all that for the first time maybe, and the ways that maybe that doesn't always work, if there's anything.

[00:08:04] Mason: I think this is true outside of capital markets and even really in personal human relationships. But, you know, I think there can be sometimes misaligned expectations. So one party has one perspective of how the other's gonna deliver on something or vice versa.

And so often when there's those expectations don't prove out, it can create challenges. I think that's something that I observed in some cases. You know, oftentimes the beauty is trying to understand that balance from the get go, and that often is what makes a good deal is to create the right, you know, meeting in the middle, so to speak. So, again, that can happen from time to time and it's something that you learn from and you know what to look out for early on.

[00:08:41] Dominique: That's really interesting and I, I like that you were able to connect that back to kind of the broader human experience. That's very cool, definitely a space I think most sustainability folks don't feel as comfortable. And I think that's a loss in a lot of ways that I'm sure you'd agree, where like these ideas need to have ROI and need to be spoken about in the ways that like our world just works.

So it's really cool that your career started off so early, having those like investment capital conversations. It's clearly been an asset to you in business.

[00:09:10] Mason: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that in the role that I have today with Denali, which is a sustainability focused company, I'm really excited to put those skills into practice and continue to earn the right to execute on that vision of our company day in and day out.

So yeah, I think it's important that speaking broadly, you know, if we as a society want to execute upon the visions we have for a more sustainable future, a more circular future, it's imperative that we articulate that vision in a way that secures investment. And if you can't do that, it's just ideas. And so I think it's important. I'm excited to be doing that every day. 

[00:09:48] Christy: Mason, I'm curious, after you left Stephens, it seems like you started working in this space around waste and environmental services. What drew you to that industry? Why did you decide to go that direction?

[00:10:02] Mason: Yeah, I had the opportunity to get some exposure to the space. So, taking a step back. While at Stephens, I had the opportunity to work on a lot of different sectors, and so I got exposure to a lot of different types of businesses out there. And whether it was, you know, technology and software or agricultural services, you name it, there was a lot of breadth to that.

And so, I had had the opportunity to see a lot of different types of business models and then, got some exposure after I left Stephens to the waste and recycling industry. And I felt like it was an important part of our society, right, that service. But the business model is also something that intrigued me in terms of how it really works and what the future could behold, you know, recycling was a pretty big trend, when I stepped in. And it felt like an industry that had a lot of change happening.

And so, those are some of the things that got me to a place where I wanted to commit my career to the space.

[00:10:55] Christy: It sounds like you've got a personal passion, in a way, for this space. Do you think you saw something different that maybe others didn't see in this space?

[00:11:04] Mason: Yeah. I think in the context of what I'm doing now, within the organics recycling vertical, I think that there've been a lot of ideas about what it can become. And I think that with my colleagues here at Denali, we're focused on building something that is unique, in the context of our vertical, and then really within the broader space that we operate in.

So, I do my part to contribute to that every day, but it's part of a broader team vision for sure.

[00:11:32] Dominique: Yeah. Speaking of, you've hinted that you're at Denali and that you're in this organics aspect of the waste stream. Tell us about Denali and why it's special and why it's solving a problem.

[00:11:43] Mason: Yeah. So, Denali is the result of a multi-decade vision of creating a best in class company focused on organics recycling. And so what we are today is a result of a lot of vision, a lot of efforts to build the infrastructure that our country requires to take product out of landfills and create a circularity story. Being part of that company is really exciting for me.

[00:12:09] Dominique: And I really wanna unpack a little bit like best in class because I think that that speaks to your understanding of the industry and kind of status quo or other options. I'm just curious, in your own words, like what is special about Denali in terms of like, what problems have been in the waste space, prior and like, why is it different with Denali in the mix?

Because I think it is really important, and I think you could educate our listeners quite a bit about kind of our, the waste industry and what's been going on and where there's need for improvement.

[00:12:40] Mason: Yeah, absolutely. So I think at its core what makes us different is we think about taking material that would otherwise be wasted, which to us means going into a landfill and routing it to its highest and best use. And so what that means for us is, a use case of the material that can create a circular story, a circular use case back into the system. And so that's deep into our ethos and, you know, so we pride ourselves on working with our customers to find, hey, what's the best way to use this residual from your process, from your retail store, from your distribution center, et cetera.

[00:13:14] Christy: I think you're in a unique position because of where you sit in the industry with environmental waste services, organics recycling, and your experience in working with businesses at a top level. 

What advice would you have to a sustainability business seeking capital? You mentioned storytelling as very important and you're passionate about that.

What advice would you have for a business that is seeking capital but has that sustainability mission?

[00:13:43] Mason: I think that it's important for a sustainability oriented business to demonstrate for its prospective customers a broader value proposition outside of just a sustainability oriented goal, right? So to me, sustainability means a lot of things. I actually think that it means something different to everybody.

There's environmental sustainability, there's climate sustainability, there's business sustainability, which I think is something that's not often thought of as part of that term, that's very important, and likely many others. And so I think that whatever your specific niche is within the context of that space, I think that showing the markets that you've got a broad based, value proposition for prospective customers, I think is important. I think it creates more long-term staying power, and to build a real enterprise over time.

[00:14:36] Dominique: And I wanna continue the theme of advice for your last question here. I'm curious what advice maybe you'd have for a younger version of yourself. So kind of thinking back to, we kind of ran the whole gamut of like, what you were interested in when you were younger and what you studied in college, and kind of how you made some of those decisions.

But if you could give some advice to a young person trying to figure out how to connect dots like history and business and sustainability, what would you tell them?

[00:15:03] Mason: Yeah, I mean, I'll connect back to something I said earlier in this conversation was about how to answer that question in the context of, you know, the AI trend, right? With all the tools available to us now. And I think that it's perhaps more important than ever to study liberal arts and read and write and think, learn those skills.

I think also in the context of the technical skills, I think that you have to find the right balance between using the tools and learning how to do things on your own and really understanding how business works and how accounting works and things like that.

So that's my view. If I was to put myself in a context of today's world, I could see where that could create certain challenges, right? Where you've got these really fantastic tools at your disposal, but does it prevent you from developing yourself in the process?

And so I think that folks are gonna have to be really mindful about that to ensure that they're building themselves in the process. 

[00:15:52] Dominique: Yeah, I think that was not only great advice for anyone, but I appreciate how topical that is and real that is for so many students right now figuring out how to grow with technology, but how to draw the lines too. So I think that was a good way of framing that. Thank you so much for joining us today.

It was so, so awesome to have you on. I'm very excited to dig more into the work you're doing at Denali on our next episode. I just enjoyed hearing the way that you've approached kind of a traditional field of like business and capital, but also I really like that you've come at it from this idea of like pattern recognition and history and the human approach to all of it. I just appreciate the ways you've connected some really niche topics from investment banking to waste back to the human experience. It's just really nice and great to hear. How can folks connect with you or support the work that you're doing?

[00:16:41] Mason: Yeah, follow Denali on LinkedIn, or you can look me up on LinkedIn as well. I like to share our activity from time to time. So yeah, find us on that platform.

[00:16:50] Christy: Thank you, Mason. Each guest brings a different approach to sustainability. We're here to highlight the people doing that work that inspires others because climate action takes many forms.

[00:16:59] Dominique: As always, you can find our episodes to support the show at thegreenchampions.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please follow, subscribe, and leave us a review. And if you're a podcast platform, stay connected with us on LinkedIn and Instagram @greenchampionspod. Music is by Zayn Dweik. Thanks for listening to Green Champions.

We'll dig into the second half of Mason's success story in our next episode.