Josh Lloyd - The Architect Who Wanted the Rope to Pull, Not Push

[00:00:10] Dominique: Welcome to Green champions. 

[00:00:12] Christy: Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people sharing sustainability success stories.

[00:00:16] Dominique: This podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas. I'm Dominique. 

[00:00:22] Christy: And I'm Christy. 

[00:00:23] Dominique: Today I am so excited. We have Joshua Lloyd with us. He is the regional sustainability manager for Turner Construction, where he leads sustainability initiatives to reduce their environmental operational footprint from 10 different offices across eight different states.

That's Wisconsin, Illinois, Michigan, Tennessee, Alabama, Ohio, Indiana, and Kentucky. I know I did that in the order Josh does not want me to do them in. Today we are talking about sustainability as it relates to waste diversion and implementing creative solutions on construction sites. But first, we're talking about Josh's background and how he got here.

So thanks for being here, Josh.

[00:00:56] Joshua: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[00:00:57] Dominique: All right. Where's home? Where are you calling from?

[00:01:00] Joshua: I am calling from Columbus, Ohio. That is my home base.

[00:01:03] Dominique: Where'd you grow up?

[00:01:04] Joshua: I actually grew up in upstate New York in the Rochester area. So yeah, I went to school at Kent State University for architecture and met my wife there, and that is the story of my journey to Ohio, basically.

[00:01:16] Dominique: So she brought you to Ohio?

[00:01:18] Joshua: She got me to stay, yes.

[00:01:21] Christy: Well, what took you to Kent State? Why architecture? Was that a passion? Was that something you've always been excited about?

[00:01:26] Joshua: Yeah. Growing up, my dad was always renovating something, so I was always a part of that process. And, I learned early on in high school that I enjoyed designing and, kind of construction. So from there I just looked at what were the opportunities there. So that what kind of brought me to architecture.

I actually started with an associate's degree in architectural engineering at Alfred State, or SUNY Alfred in New York, and then transferred to Kent. But what draw me to Kent, it was very real world teachings versus some of the other schools that were more theory-based design, which played to some of my strengths because going from a technical school to a theory-based school would not have been such a good opportunity for me.

So it was a great experience and that's where I kind of started to learn my passion for sustainability. Specifically in terms of passive solar design is where it started.

[00:02:16] Dominique: Hmm. Can you explain that for those who are like, "Okay, what does that mean?"

[00:02:19] Joshua: So passive solar design is, in the simplest form, is basically just allowing the building to use nature's, the sunlight to heat your building.

[00:02:29] Dominique: What was so interesting about that for you at the beginning? What was the light bulb? Was it thinking about how we design spaces in such a thoughtful way, or was it more just seeing the fact that this was a huge opportunity?

[00:02:42] Joshua: Looking back, I think it was more, it was a design problem. How do you try and figure out a way for that to work in terms of how you design the building, orient the building? So that's really where I think where it came down to. At that time, I had no idea about the operational impacts that it would really have.

So yeah, it really became a design and a design problem for me.

[00:03:01] Dominique: And then how did that connect for you to the world of construction or even LEED?

[00:03:06] Joshua: So, actually I am an early adopter for LEED, because when I got out of school is right around when LEED was starting out, 'cause, LEED started in the late '90s. And I graduated in 2001, I believe it was. And, so once I got into the professional world and started doing research about it, that's really what drove me and to learn about the operational side, the benefits and then just the healthier materials and stuff like that. And then I focused my career finding or firms that kinda specialized or worked on LEED projects at that point. 

[00:03:37] Christy: I think it's interesting that you described your interest in this because it was a problem to solve. But it seems like all the problems you've talked about so far are environmentally related in one way or another. Is that something you're drawn to naturally?

[00:03:54] Joshua: I think so. I mean, again, growing up, we did a lot of camping. So, granted it would be considered glamping. At one point my parents did have a motor home, but I rarely slept in it. I always brought a tent and slept outside. So I think that really, played into it, is just I was always outdoors.

I mean, I'm a latchkey kid. I came home and spent most of my time outdoors hanging out with friends and doing something. 

[00:04:16] Christy: Oh, that's amazing. Well, tell me a little bit about Home Base Foundation. What is that, and why did you get involved?

[00:04:23] Joshua: So that was something I got involved with when I first moved to Columbus, right out of college, started a couple years up in Cleveland, and I volunteered my time with what was the Cleveland Green Building Coalition, which then turned into a USGBC local chapter. And when I was up in Cleveland, I worked with a local sustainability guru who was doing a lot of stuff with the local residents.

And so we ended up creating a educational session for young architects to learn more about green design. And so when I moved to Columbus, this group was starting to get together or this teacher with Home Base, he wanted to build a more, a greenhouse or a LEED home.

So I sought out that opportunity. It was just starting and, I offered my services to work on the design and the construction documents to make sure we put it, they put it

together well. And it was actually 

built by high school students. 

[00:05:15] Christy: Oh, that's cool. 

[00:05:17] Joshua: Yeah, the first LEED Platinum home in Ohio was built by high school students from, Worthington Kilbourne High School. 

[00:05:22] Christy: Oh, how cool is that?

[00:05:25] Joshua: Yeah. And what's, 

really funny is, one of those students is now one of the sustainability directors for Moody Nolan here locally, a big architecture firm.

[00:05:33] Dominique: Wow. Maybe a future Green Champions guest. 

[00:05:36] Joshua: Maybe.

[00:05:37] Dominique: That's really awesome. I also kind of wanted to backpedal for a second and let you explain USGBC and just their role in thinking about our built environment and how it interacts with the environment. And 

so I'd love to hear just what you've done in that space here.

[00:05:51] Joshua: Yeah. So USGBC is United States Green Building Council. And so they help promote sustainability within the built environment. The best way I explain it is it helps get people from many different industries on a common playing field to give them the same language to understand what we're talking about when we look at different green initiatives.

Because LEED is looking at energy consumption, water usage, healthy materials, location and transportation. So it looks at whole breadth of things. And it's a way to get designers and building owners to build beyond code minimums. The intent is to make the buildings better. And then now the LEED version five is rolling out, and that's really changing the game, and it's little less focused on energy and materials, and more focused on embodied carbon, which is something we're focusing a lot at Turner right now. 

[00:06:41] Christy: Maybe explain embodied carbon a little bit too, and what does that mean in layperson's terms?

[00:06:47] Joshua: Embodied carbon is the emissions associated with the materials we use to build from the point of extraction of the raw materials to the manufacturing, delivery and installation of those materials. And it could even, some companies will look at the overall emissions associated with life of the product to eventually, demolition. 

[00:07:08] Christy: So you might

traditionally have one product that's always been used in construction, but thinking about it from a carbon standpoint, you might sub it out with something that's equally as helpful to the structure of the home but has less carbon. Is that correct? 

[00:07:22] Joshua: Absolutely. 

[00:07:23] Christy: Amazing. 

[00:07:23] Dominique: Also, I think it's so cool with this foundation work. I mean, we're gonna talk a lot about the way that construction can be more mindful of its environmental impacts. But I really just love that you also got really involved at the intersection, what it seems to me, of like building design, environment, but also like social impact and thinking about like the community as well.

Obviously when we think about our built environment, affordable housing, there's so much conversation to be had around how those spaces support the people in it too. I'm curious if you have any just thoughts about that connection between the built environment, sustainability, and community impact, and just also where maybe it makes you excited.

[00:08:02] Joshua: No, absolutely. Actually, USGBC used to host what they called Green Apple Day of Service, where the local chapters would find projects to do within the community. So my wife and I, for a number of years, organized rain garden builds within our community that primarily benefited our schools, where we got donations for all the materials, and then obviously found the labor to get it all done.

So yeah, it definitely roots into the community, but it's also looking at, again, goes to less emissions from the building, which means better air quality, less strain on the resources. So, it can benefit the community in multiple ways. 

I wanna dig into, to something, if you don't mind, just about Home Base Foundation once more because that's an organization based on social impact. Is that correct? Yeah, it was a program that a high school shop teacher generated where their class would build a habitat house every year. So yeah, that was something this teacher did to teach their kids not only about construction, but again, the social impact. So, yeah, that program ended, it's probably been 20 years since that program wasn't around. 

[00:09:07] Christy: You seem to have that connection to, maybe youth and inspiration and training folks. And so it seems like a natural connection. What would you say to that? Is that accurate?

[00:09:17] Joshua: No, that's absolutely accurate. My wife and I both are a glutton for punishment. We can't say no. So we're out in the community doing things all the time. I've been involved with the Cub Scouts for, it was 11 years before I, we got through with two of my kids.

I coached softball for 10 years for, again, my two daughters. And then I'm involved with our local green team for the city of Worthington. So yeah, no, very involved within the community. And a lot of what I do comes into, to my volunteering efforts as well.

[00:09:49] Dominique: I also think that's I mean, I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir, but that's also why I think you're so good at what you do is, throughout the trajectory of your career and I think working on larger and larger things, you're also staying connected to the community and doing things on a local level.

 But a lot of that cross-promotion of big organization, local community, that's where we get to have really cool impact.

[00:10:09] Joshua: Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, my last job, it really taught me how to deliver the message because there are so many different personalities that you work with and opinions. So how do you

deliver that message to those 

people to make that change or impact? 

[00:10:23] Christy: Do you have some tips? This is really fascinating too. So how do you deliver that message? I think that's something that everybody struggles with. What has been your secret sauce to figuring that out, and what advice would you give to someone about that?

[00:10:35] Joshua: Getting kicked in the pants. Yeah, it's definitely have to be able to read the room. 'Cause when you, at least in terms of my position, people know why you're showing up. And so getting that initial reaction with those introductions can really shape where, okay, we're going all in, we're talking about sustainability at the highest levels versus, oh, all right, we're gonna be doing our minimum, but it's not... we're gonna stay away from the term sustainability. We're gonna talk about energy efficiency. We're gonna talk about waste reduction. Get those, for some people, trigger words out of there, and just frame it in the right mind for what's gonna make them really kinda move forward with things.

[00:11:12] Dominique: Are there words that are hitting home right now? Are there things you've landed on that you're like, " again, read the room, not across the board, silver bullet. But are there things that you're finding do resonate and are a little bit easier to adopt right now?

[00:11:26] Joshua: Right now, the biggest one that I think we're focusing on is, waste reduction. So we talk about waste reduction, not so much efficiency because that's building efficiency because a lot of that's already designed into the building. So when we get it, we're just procuring that equipment with little influence there.

But actually just this week, I was actually able to, instead of sustainability use, well, this is ESG commitments. Which that's in some regions, that's a trigger word too. People don't wanna hear that. But this particular project, I was working on sustainability was the trigger word with, with a client.

So was like, "Well, all right, these are social and governance commitments that are being made."

[00:12:03] Dominique: But before you were at Turner, kinda going back to just your trajectory a bit, you were at CLEAResult.

[00:12:09] Joshua: Yes. 

[00:12:10] Dominique: What was your time there like? What were you working on?

[00:12:12] Joshua: So with CLEAResult, they're an energy efficiency company. So their primary business is running energy efficiency programs for utilities across the country. I actually did a small stint with them, in '09 before another organization that they bought out doing home energy audits. So going into people's homes and doing the blow door test, crawling in their attic and evaluating their energy performance and making recommendations.

But then when I kinda circled back with CLEAResult, I was really focused on the commercial buildings and I was specifically working on programs that delivered incentives to commercial new buildings. So a lot of projects in Ohio and Columbus specifically, I was able to help influence the building efficiency, so better, more efficient lighting, HVAC systems, utilizing the utilities money at that time.

So, very grassroots, going to a lot of different meetings, meeting different architects, engineers, building owners, but then also doing a lot of presentations, attending events across the state. There was a lot of work the first couple years going to a lot of events, meeting a lot of people.

But then me and what I refer to as a very small but mighty team, just made it work. And after a couple years, the amount of meetings we had to go to reduced because people started calling us, because we both came from the designing construction industry, so we understood what they were doing. So again, to the point of being able to deliver that message, " Hey, we're your silent partner. How can we help you and then, and your client?" So

[00:13:42] Dominique: That's a big part of your professional career, like that role. And you talked about the things that you were doing while you were there, but if we were to have bird's-eye view, how would you describe the difference of the version of you that started that role and the version of you that was then moving on to Turner? Curious for your growth in that role, 'cause that probably must have been like so eye-opening and educational.

[00:14:01] Joshua: It was 'cause again, got to meet a lot of different people and understand just what some of the driving factors were for some organizations, as well as design teams in general. But it definitely gave me insight into how you can make a change, and then what you need to do to be successful.

And a lot of that's what I found is just being persistent.

[00:14:23] Dominique: That's awesome. I'm glad you had that role.

[00:14:25] Joshua: Me too. It was, It was a very good role for me. 

[00:14:28] Christy: I love it. 

[00:14:29] Joshua: I consider myself an introvert, so getting into that, pushing my boundaries was definitely at first a challenge, I learned a lot with that role.

[00:14:37] Dominique: That feels like an important part of each guest that now I'm thinking I wonder if we should talk more about is even just, personality types, and I think ' cause roles like this are so different, introverts versus extroverts, and you could go into all the different kind of little kind of binary pieces of our personality. But some of this might have been extra exhausting as an introvert.

[00:14:57] Joshua: As long as I was within my wheelhouse, I was good. Actually just a couple months ago I was up in Cleveland for the Green Sports Alliance Summit, and as long as I was within the sustainability conversation, I was good. I don't really follow professional sports at all, so once it got to that part of the conversation, I just clammed up and I'm like, "Hmm, yeah, I don't really know."

I don't know how to continue, I don't know how to keep that rolling. So luckily I had partners with me that could keep that piece. But yeah, as long as it's... or even people I know, it's going in that soft introduction, that meeting that new person, that's where I struggle.

[00:15:31] Dominique: That's also really cool 'cause as someone who's gotten to know you, I think like in the realm of your spaces, like whether it's at construction environment, sustainability community, or even like Worthington, I think all those are places where it feels like you're very comfortable

 are also where you're going to thrive and probably make more impact.

[00:15:47] Joshua: Well, next time you talk with MaryEllen from USGBC, she will more than happy tell you that everything in Ohio is six degrees of separation of Josh Lloyd. 

[00:15:56] Christy: Probably less if we ha- if we're gonna be honest, it's probably three degrees or something like .

[00:16:03] Joshua: Yeah. 

[00:16:04] Christy: Now, in this industry, between me and my wife, who used to work as an architect as well and worked for the state, if I don't know them, she does. You light up when you're talking about sustainability and the impact of it, in the communities you serve and the people that are impacted by it. That sounds super rewarding, but from hearing from you, what's the most rewarding aspect of doing what you do here? 

[00:16:28] Joshua: I actually think it might be the education piece of it. Getting people to, one, look outside of their own thought process, but, just seeing their light bulbs turn on. And I think that's probably the thing that I am starting to enjoy most about it. And also the connections that I'm making, because Turner's such a large, large company.

So I mean, I actually was presenting to interns the last couple weeks that we have in the different offices and, just the questions and granted, there were a few that were glazing over, but you could see the others in the room when their light bulbs were turning on But yeah, just I think that's really what I'm enjoying is connecting with the people and seeing, getting them to think different and go, "Oh, yeah, I can, I can do that." I don't have to do all of it, but this is something I really enjoy and I really can push forward.

[00:17:09] Dominique: How did you transition then to Turner, and what got you excited about construction and being in this role?

[00:17:15] Joshua: Well, as I mentioned, started my career in architecture, so it was a natural transition. For me, a space that I was familiar with, although contractors do things a lot differently than architects and the timelines are different. But what really got me excited for this role was the opportunity to be a change agent. So that's what really drove me because Turner is so, such a large company, when 

they start doing something, others start watching. I mean, they've been the number one green builder since 2008 for a reason. So I saw that opportunity and I knew a few people that worked here that I've worked with in my previous lives.

So I absolutely jumped at the opportunity.

[00:17:52] Christy: That makes total sense. And it seems so natural and amazing to expand your knowledge and impact with an organization like that. That's so cool.

[00:18:01] Joshua: Yeah. I mean, it's been a huge learning curve at the same time because, again, it's the construction side versus the design side. So now looking at, well, we have to procure the materials. And obviously there's a cost associated to it and there's a timeline and associated to all that stuff.

So I'm still learning, but it's been great. 

[00:18:18] Christy: You would not be happy if you weren't continuing to learn something new. Let's just be honest about that, right? I Yeah.

[00:18:23] Joshua: Me and one of my counterparts are both currently geeking out over, we got access to some data, so now we're starting to play with it in Power BI, and I'm actually a little jealous of him right now 'cause he's focusing on that and I'm not. And I did a lot of that with my last job, playing with the numbers.

[00:18:38] Dominique: Christy and I love to geek out about numbers, so you found, you found the right audience for that.

[00:18:43] Joshua: Yep 

[00:18:44] Christy: I, and you said Power BI, I was like, "Oh, yeah." 

[00:18:48] Dominique: Last question here and then we'll get into, our next episode. But looking back at your career, I think you've had such an interesting journey, and I think you've been also, in some ways, like you, your North Star has been clear the whole time. You obviously fell in love with design early, and architecture in particular, but also how it interacts with the environment.

You didn't really waver too much on the fact that that lit you up, and you've been following that in different ways and just finding ways to grow and make more impact. You also talked about successful communication strategies around sustainability, and then how eventually that got you to this really powerful place with Turner, to be part of larger change.

Looking back at your career and thinking about previous versions of yourself and young listeners, as well, what advice would you give your younger self when looking back and thinking about the things he navigated and the decisions he had to make?

[00:19:32] Joshua: I'll first start with I reconnected with an old classmate just, about six months ago, and she pointed out the same thing, that watching my career trajectory, I was very focused on what I was doing. When I first started work, I sought out the companies that were doing the things I was interested in.

And I guess I didn't really think about it when I jumped to CLEAResult that I was going in... Well, maybe not, 'cause when I took that job, I did say I wanted to have the rope to pull for influence versus pushing on it, which is what I felt like I was doing with, on the design side at the time. So persistence is one thing, I would always kind of promote is you have to be persistent.

You, you can't just ask the question and walk away. But you also have to ask the questions. Once I started getting into management, I absolutely told whoever I was with, "Ask questions." You can't ask too many, 'cause that's how I learned is just by continuously asking questions.

And, you can have that focus. You can have y- your niche and run with it. So it's just showing that you're passionate. So leading with your passion, that is another way that really opens the doors, is they don't see you're there because it's a job. They see that you are there because this is what you truly believe in, and that helps really open a lot of doors and open people's minds too, quite honestly.

[00:20:44] Dominique: That feels like a perfect recipe of persistence, curiosity, and passion. 

[00:20:48] Joshua: Absolutely.

[00:20:49] Christy: That's great advice. Josh, unfortunately, we've gotta end this episode, but that just means we get to talk more about some impact. But, you've given some great advice. How can people get in touch with you if they want to reach out? 

[00:21:01] Joshua: I would say the best way that for them to reach out is

they can find me on LinkedIn.

[00:21:05] Christy: Well, that sounds great. They know where to find you.

[00:21:07] Joshua: Absolutely.

[00:21:08] Christy: Thank you for being on with us today, for sharing your love and passion for architecture. I also love how you think about it as puzzles that need to be solved. I think that that's really cool.

Thank you. 

So each guest brings a different approach to sustainability. We're here to highlight the people doing the work that inspires others because climate action takes many forms.

[00:21:27] Dominique: As always, you can find our episodes and support the show at thegreenchampions.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please follow, subscribe and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. You can find us on LinkedIn and Instagram, @greenchampionspod. Our music is by Zayn Dweik. Thanks for listening to Green Champions.

We'll be back with the second half of Josh's success story in our next episode. 

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