Mary Cropenbaker - Building a Green Program Any Business Can Join

[00:00:10] Dominique: Welcome to Green Champions.Thanks for joining us in a conversation with real people sharing sustainability success stories.

[00:00:15] Christy: This podcast is a platform for green champions to share their stories and plant new ideas. I'm Christy.

[00:00:20] Dominique: And I'm Dominique.

[00:00:21] Christy: Today, we're back with Mary Cropenbaker, assistant solid waste manager at Hamilton County ReSource, working to help businesses, schools, and organizations adopt greener practices. You can listen to last week's episode to learn more about Mary's personal journey.

She piloted the 513 Green Certification Program, a free sustainability certification which encourages businesses to adopt greener practices. Today, we're talking about sustainability at the community level and how businesses, schools, and organizations can work towards zero waste goals. Mary, welcome back.

[00:00:52] Mary: Thank you so much for having me again.

[00:00:54] Dominique: Mary, last time we got to dig more into your background, everything from doing research with animals, maybe some pigeon gambling, as well as working at, even the zoo, but also then going over to the EPA. You also have a unique academic background from psychology research to also getting your MBA and your master's, not to be forgotten. But you just bring such a breadth of expertise around this work, and I'm excited today we get to dig into what that work is. Why don't you kick us off and tell us a bit about the work that you do at Hamilton County ReSource and the overall kind of jurisdiction that you think of?

[00:01:27] Mary: So Hamilton County ReSource, we are a local government agency in Ohio. Every county has to have or be a part of a solid waste district, and the entire goal of solid waste districts are to keep material from going to the landfill. However, we're largely non-regulatory, so we attempt to achieve this mission by really working with different audiences to incentivize waste reduction, support efforts when it comes to waste reduction, and then remove barriers as well.

[00:01:54] Dominique: As the assistant solid waste manager, what are you responsible for kind of day to day? If you could break that down for us as simple as possible.

[00:02:02] Mary: Day-to-day is definitely always different. One of the main things that we have to do as a solid waste district is write a solid waste plan, a 15-year solid waste plan that we essentially update every five years. So we're like always writing the plan. So that's a big aspect of the work that we do.

And then, the other parts of my role are to oversee different studies, largely kind of waste characterization studies, looking at the waste that are going to the landfill in Hamilton County, and then manage some employees as well.

But, I also started as the business specialist at Hamilton County, so I've also continued on a lot of work when it comes to focusing on waste diversion programming for the commercial and industrial sectors.

[00:02:42] Christy: One of the things when people think about a solid waste authority, or perhaps for people listening that might not be in the state of Ohio and understand solid waste authorities, I think there might be some confusion between the fact that there's a landfill that is there to capture waste from the surrounding communities, yet there's also a part of that organization that's trying to reduce the amount that's going to the landfill.

[00:03:06] Mary: Can you tell us if there is a rub between that or if there's any confusion, Yeah. It's a really interesting question. So solid waste districts can be funded in a few different ways. The way that we're funded in Hamilton County is from tipping fees to the landfill. So for every ton of waste that goes to the landfill, we get a certain amount of funding, $1 to $2. And so essentially we exist to put ourselves out of a job, which is a weird scenario to be in for sure, as we want there to be less material going to the landfill.

That would be a great problem for us to have, I think, as a solid waste district if we were running out of funding. But that is definitely the most obvious weird friction point as a solid waste district.

[00:03:49] Dominique: And you just hit on the fact that businesses was your jurisdiction before the role you're in now, and we're about to talk about the programming you built for businesses.

I view my visualization of your role is like a big banner that goes across multiple pillars, and business is only one of those. Will you give us a little bit more clarity on the other programs that have been built around your solid waste plan to solve different problems you're seeing?

Yes, absolutely. So our audience as a solid waste district is essentially anyone that creates waste that we think we can help influence to divert that waste, so everyone. 

[00:04:22] Mary: Then, we also work with schools and businesses really on any type of waste diversion activity.

I like to say that we act like free waste consultants for the commercial and industrial sector. So we have programs where we will help them navigate how to set up recycling. If they have questions around what to do with a certain material, we'll help connect them a network, of different recyclers that might be a good diversion option for them.

So we're this interesting organization of both supporting and almost a consulting based role, but then also really working hard to develop the infrastructure in areas where we're lacking when it comes to diversion opportunities, whether that's composting food rescue, things like that.

[00:05:05] Christy: In your role, you work across, interesting to think about businesses and schools. Very different. I think,

 with that in mind, though, there's differences, what are the main differences and how does that make your job more difficult?

Or does it, or does it create unique opportunities?

[00:05:22] Mary: I feel like it creates unique opportunities and even amongst yes, schools and, a general office are gonna be vastly different in how we approach working with them a lot of times. But to be perfectly honest, no business is really the same either. I always say it's way harder to start a recycling program than you expect, and I think that how we approach each business is really, and each school tailored to that particular entity.

A lot of times one of the main barriers is that people don't know who's in charge of recycling.

 No one really takes ownership of that. So really helping people navigate that aspect of it and come up with a solid plan for managing their program and assigning who that role is gonna be I always feel like a surprising aspect of our work. So that's in how they're often similar.

Schools can be very different though, like you're talking about, is where students might have a lot of involvement or want to have a lot of involvement. And we'll do a lot of education in classrooms too. And they're always really great, a really great place for us to send information home because students will really prod their parents to do things.

So there's a lot of interesting opportunities in schools that maybe we don't have in businesses in the same way.

[00:06:35] Christy: I know you're not supposed to pick a favorite. And you might say, "Christy, I just can't answer that." But is there something that might be more fun than the other? Or what is fun about each that you enjoyed? I won't make you pick your favorite child. What do you love the most that's unique about each one?

[00:06:49] Mary: Some of the organizations that I actually end up really loving to work with are honestly our reuse organizations, where we will go in and help them on the back end, but then I feel like I get to learn so much about what they do and what they take that it's just really, inspiring for me as well.

And really those are the organizations that I like the most or any one of them where there's a strong, almost like green team culture, whether that is a student-led green team at schools or whether that's going to be at a business, really where you have that kind of employee passion and where they really want to learn.

They're really, advocates at their own, in their own space, at their own organization. Those are 100% the most fun to work with, because they're the most engaged.

[00:07:32] Dominique: I think that resonates very well for us too, as people who were so excited to talk to Green Champions and people who are finding a way to champion different efforts. That resonates and definitely feels true for us too. Okay, so let's set the stage. It's 2020. We are navigating so many new normals, and you've decided to pilot the 513 Green Certification Program.

You mentioned that your role sometimes functions like a free waste consultant. This program was to offer free sustainability certifications to businesses. Okay, how'd the idea first get started? Because 2020 feels like a unique time to be piloting something like this.

[00:08:09] Mary: Absolutely. So like I said, when I started as the business specialist, we already had a really great program in place for working with businesses on entry-level, recycling programs where we would help them set up recycling service, really coordinate with their janitorial, their staff, make sure that they had all the signage that they needed, the education that they needed.

And we had a little bit of a carrot to get them to start recycling because we'd provide free interior recycling bins for the organizations that started or expanded recycling. 

[00:08:39] Dominique: For those who maybe have never bought new bins, that's expensive and hard to navigate.

[00:08:43] Mary: They're weirdly expensive, particularly the lids. I'll never really understand why, but yes, it is a large cost. And so that's-- I think we know that's a barrier, when businesses go to look at starting recycling, not only do they potentially have to, pay for recycling service, even though you might be able to offset that by reducing your waste hauling.

The infrastructure to actually just have that be successful can be expensive as well. And so that's what we were trying to help overcome. And we were doing that successfully. I was working with a lot of businesses a year on starting recycling programs. It was really great to feel like I was getting them set up, making sure that they had the best interior infrastructure, making sure that their employees were educated.

That was all great. What I didn't like was that I then didn't have a way to push them to continue to think about waste diversion. And so that was something that was, in my brain, that I was struggling with. And then I went to a conference where I saw the City of Phoenix and their zero waste department talk about a green business certification that they ran out of their zero waste department that was completely free, really focused on kind of employee efforts.

And I thought, "Oh if they can do that, why on earth can't I do that?" And so that's really where the idea for the 5-in-3 Green certification was born. I really wanted to have a certification that was going to be accessible to businesses. 'Cause there are other great sustainability certifications that are out there, but they can often be quite expensive, and they can be limited to what type of organization you are, whether you're a for-profit, nonprofit.

And so I wanted something that was going to be affordable, AKA free, and that any type of business could achieve no matter the size, no matter the type. I wanted it to be very accessible. The other thing that I felt was a challenge that we needed to overcome in Hamilton County was that I was working with a lot of these green teams, these wonderful volunteer employee-based green teams, where they'd invite me in to help with recycling programs.

We'd get that all set up, and then they'd turn to me and say, now what do we work on now?" So the other benefit to this certification is that it can provide a framework for businesses that are interested in starting sustainability programs and give them ideas on what they could work on.

So there are a lot of metrics on certification, but you only have to achieve 45 out of the 115 to 125 metrics on the checklist to become certified. It is not meant to be an overly difficult certification to achieve. It's meant to be a way to really highlight the organizations that show a strong commitment to sustainability throughout Hamilton County.

And then also, like I said, provide that framework for the ones that are interested and wanna dip their toe in sustainability but are afraid of where to start.

[00:11:20] Dominique: Yeah, and I, you mentioned there I think a really big part of why this is important. One, it being free is important. But two, any type of business. And I think for somebody who might not be in your shoes might not understand how hard that was to navigate. And so when I think of any type of business, you might think, oh, small, medium, large.

But, I can think of like retail versus industrial versus office spaces. Maybe you could add more for us of just the specifics that you use in terms of thinking about the different categories. But thinking about how each of those kinds of organizations engages in changes or at least gets a box checked is very different.

So what are those kinds of businesses, and what are examples of items on a checklist?

[00:12:02] Mary: Yeah, that's a really good point. So we do have four checklists now. We have a general office checklist, a retail, a restaurant, and a K through 12 schools. And we started with just the general office. I can make that checklist work for anyone, largely because the checklists focus on employee behavior.

That was the other really big piece of this that I wanted versus building performance. And part of that is because naturally the thing that employees have the most control over is waste, which is what I know best. And also that really allows, it allows tenants of buildings. So if a business doesn't own their building, allows them to achieve the certification.

It also allows for this, kind of culture of sustainability to be cultivated, I feel like, where employees are really engaged. So there are a vast variety through the different checklists. On each checklist, there are five different categories.

There's sustainable actions, and those are things like have a sustainability plan, have a green team at your organization, have something on your website that talks about your sustainability efforts. Then waste aversion, which is the largest category. Obvious things, have a recycling program, look into composting or food rescue, food donation efforts, look into different types of specialty recycling.

Then there's transportation and air quality, which is looking more about if your employees own vehicles, how they're coming to work or do they have options to telecommute, things like that. And then the last two categories are water and energy conservation. Things like track your energy and water bills, have prompts for employees to turn off lights.

They can be as basic as that all the way to, making sure that you are looking into different types of renewable energy. And then we also have an innovation category at the very end because I wanted to be able to capture the cool and unique things that organizations that are doing that I might not have had the foresight to add onto the checklist.

Like I said, there's a plethora of different, and each category itself also has places where you can write in things that you're doing, knowing that I wouldn't be able to capture everything that people coming up with. There are lots of very bright people out there that are coming up with more unique things than I can foresee.

So I wanted to be able to capture those as well. 

[00:14:12] Dominique: Also, it's an intelligent way to build ideas for phase two, three, four, five into your program. So I think that's also just something that folks could definitely mimic and learn from as ways to not have all the answers on day one, but create a chance for people to write things in that become future checklist items.

[00:14:29] Mary: Definitely.

[00:14:30] Christy: I have to ask because this is an amazing program. It is incredibly interesting. It covers a lot of areas. I love that you cover all right, I'm gonna give you the incentives. I'm gonna help you understand, take away that worry of what do we do? What's next?

We're filling that in for you. So that's great. And what success have you seen? What are some of the results that you've seen from these businesses, and schools that have participated in the 513 Green Certification?

[00:14:56] Mary: Dominique kind of brought this up at the beginning and I forgot to touch on it, that I did then launch this program right at the beginning of the pandemic, which was a very interesting time to be launching it. So I originally thought how the process would work is that I would work with businesses, through the kind of traditional program that I talked about helping them set up recycling programs, and then I'd funnel them in to the 513 Green certification.

And really what ended up happening was almost a flip of that is, once everything shut down, a lot of people were looking for things that they could do, looking for ways to engage employees in new ways. And so the 513 Green certification was a nice fit for that. The first few kind of couple years of the program were really certifying the expected organizations, the organizations that already had really strong sustainability programs.

We mentioned the Cincinnati Zoo in the earlier podcast that I did. They were one of the ones that I piloted this with, knowing that they were doing so much. So they're a good example of a first certified organization. But honestly, I was really surprised by the ones that came through as well, like a small Pilates studio.

It really did show that it could be a certification that would work for multiple different types of organizations. So honestly, that was the first success was that we could certify everyone from a small Pilates studio to an organization like the Zoo, to, your typical office-like setting.

Engage Partners was good example of kind of that more typical office type role. So that was an early success was that it worked, even though maybe we didn't gain as much traction as I would like in those first few years, obviously that's gonna be understandable with a lot of stuff shut down.

The other thing that I think is successful is that it does fill different needs for businesses as well. So some reach out to be certified just for the recognition aspect. We have a directory on our website, and I think that's been also a surprising benefit of, being able to have a directory for residents if they're interested in finding a business, patronizing a business that's verified as sustainable in some way.

So we get, a few that kind of reach out for that aspect. Then get some businesses that reach out and become certified almost as a stepping stone to harder certifications. So we have a few that have gone on to do like B Corp certification. MadTree Brewing is a good example of that.

But the group that I end up working the most with are the ones that are looking for a lot of consulting and guidance. The green teams where they have a lot of energy and passion around sustainability, but want someone to assist them with path forward. And that's really what I get excited of, about, helping and making sure that , I'll go in and I'll meet with them and help them look at the certification, look at what they're already doing.

It's usually more than they think that they're doing. And then, come up with a roadmap to certification. So there's been a few that done that particular kind of consulting with. Delta has a little headquarters in downtown Cincinnati, and they were one that I did that with, and they went on to almost implement everything that we recommended.

So that's always a great feeling. So yeah, there's been a lot of wonderful organizations that have been certified through the program. But think the real success is just that it does work for so many different types of organizations.

[00:17:59] Dominique: Do you have a sense of how much waste you've diverted from the landfill when thinking about that impact?

[00:18:04] Mary: That is really wonderful question. And I really, I don't. There are 67 organizations that are certified now. We've also expanded the certification to Oxford. But since I, like I said, started in during the pandemic, my original ideas for how to quantify the work that we were doing didn't work out exactly how I had planned.

We really had to pivot a little bit to where I was certifying a lot of these organizations virtually. So I was just happy that they were continuing sustainability efforts. But we are working towards rectifying that now. So through office, we offer free waste audits too. So we have done some waste audits with the organizations that certified.

So with, on an individual level, sometimes I'll know how much waste we're diverting through the program. I'm also piloting a rebate program for the organizations that are certified, so they can get 50% off the cost for a year for compost service, for waste tracking, and for waste tracking software and for specialty recycling.

And there are definitely metrics that go along with that as well. So we're getting some better data now that we're a little bit farther along, and I can go back to implementing some follow-ups with organizations. But I'm sure if I reached out to them, they would be able to provide me some more data, but I didn't make that a hard requirement for the certification.

Since again, like I said, I was trying to make it not a difficult certification, and then the pandemic threw off a little bit of my original planning.

[00:19:30] Dominique: That makes so much sense. so I appreciate you being honest about the things that are to come, and us being real about waste can also be a difficult problem to solve for reasons like this.

 So I think that's a really good point that you're bringing up, and I'm excited for the things that you're rolling out to come.

[00:19:43] Mary: And one thing should also mention is that I did not reinvent the wheel here. When I was looking to start the certification, like I said, I stole the idea from the city of Phoenix, but there are lots of other counties and states throughout the United States that have certifications like this.

[00:19:59] Christy: So this is again, where my research kind of background came in to help where I just collected as many of those checklists that I could find and stole the metrics that I thought would work best for our region and put them in our checklist. I love the fact though that you did that research. If we don't learn from each other, we can't move this forward across the world together. And I like that you were able to borrow some things, learn some things, and I am confident that you are also sharing some things. 'Cause the program has been around now for six years. It's in year six then if you started in 2020. What are you thinking about for the future? Maybe if we had this conversation in five years, what would you hope to share with us?

[00:20:41] Mary: So I definitely feel at this point, we've gotten the earlier adopters. We've certified the organizations in some respects that I would have expected us to certify. And I think we're really starting to move into looking at those organizations that do need more assistance.

And so right now I'm looking at how we can do more outreach to organizations that we think might be interested in being certified, but like I said, are apprehensive about taking that first step. And that's the idea where pilot program, the rebate program came about was, okay, what is an incentive we can put out there to get some of on the cusp organizations, to really start engaging with us in terms of sustainability.

So I'm hopeful in five years that we are really creating a program that's truly accessible for those types of organizations where they're not intimidated to look into sustainability, that they're supportive of employees that are interested in creating sustainability programs, and that they're really turning into champions for sustainability themselves.

[00:21:37] Dominique: So as our last question here to bring us home, what advice would you have for other communities that wanna launch a program like 513 Green?

[00:21:44] Mary: That is a great question, and my answer is, this is not my main, I have lots of programs that I am a part of, and this is not necessarily a program that I am spending, all of my time on. And so I really just to say that, just in the way that we just talked about, like businesses shouldn't be intimidated to attempt, a sustainability program.

I want communities not to be intimidated to have programs like this. It is one that I created that I feel confident in that I can run, that I have the time to run. It's not meant to be overly difficult for the businesses that enter into it. The process is really businesses fill out the checklist. That checklist comes to me. I go out and meet with them and engage with them, naturally in a way, you know, that I'm consulting with them, but then the onus is on them to create these programs with my assistance, and really providing them opportunities to network with peer organizations that they can learn from as well.

There are certainly businesses that I work with in depth and make sure that they have the programs that they need. And then we do have a recertification process for every five years.

But I often find that a lot of the businesses are just reaching out when they need it. So this has been, it has solved that problem where I felt like I was abandoning businesses and their recycling programs and wasn't helping them work through other waste diversion.

This naturally keeps the conversation going that helps solve that problem. So that was a very long answer to... communities shouldn't feel like this is an intimidating type of program to run, and I'm always happy to, yeah, share the wealth.

[00:23:12] Christy: That's amazing. You can definitely hear your passion coming through and your commitment to helping everyone in the community with this, and I think that's amazing. And, a couple of things I loved is just the focus on composting and donation. That's something I think everyone is interested in. So if there are businesses that need that assistance, reach out. I loved, one idea that stood out too. I just love that even for residents, and I know this might not always...

We're talking more about businesses, but that repair, that idea of, circularity. We don't have to toss things. Let's talk about how we can repair it. I just think that's so fun. Such great free waste consulting that you do. But those are things that stand out to me that I just can't stop thinking about and how it's continuing to grow.

So I love that. How can people connect with you? And if they wanna learn more, whether they're in the Cincinnati community or they wanna reach out 'cause their community wants to create another certification program?

[00:24:09] Mary: Yes, you can connect with me or learn more about the certification or also the organizations that are already certified at 513green.com. There's a Contact Us form. I think my email directly is the website and my work cell. So always feel free, if you have a question about the certification or, the businesses that are certified, I'm always happy to kind of field those inquiries.

[00:24:30] Dominique: Perfect. Thank you, Mary, for having this conversation, and I think also for being willing to see another community doing something well and to bring it home. And, I'm really hoping this episode series is helping folks hear about you, and then 513 Green is gonna have more growth by mimicry in other communities as well.

[00:24:48] Mary: My hope was always from the get-go that it could be replicated in other areas. There is nothing more that I would like than to see it expand elsewhere where, whether that's, directly through our program or someone just taking kind of the metrics and using them for their own community. So that would be wonderful to see. 

[00:25:05] Dominique: Thanks for chatting with us. This is awesome.

[00:25:06] Mary: Each guest brings a different approach to sustainability. We're here to highlight the people like Mary, doing the work that inspires others because climate action takes many forms. 

[00:25:14] Christy: As always, you can find all of our episodes and support the show at thegreenchampions.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, subscribe, and leave us a review on your favorite podcast platform. Stay connected with us on LinkedIn and Instagram, @greenchampionspod.

Our music is by Zayn Dweik Thanks for listening to Green Champions. We'll be back next time with another success story.